9/11 Cross Case Ruling Is An Example of Christian Privilege

Cranford, NJ – American Atheists is disappointed in the Second Circuit’s ruling Monday to affirm the dismissal of its case against the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey regarding the equal representation of atheists in the 9/11 National Museum.

“The Court relied on the words of religious persons, ignoring statements to the contrary from atheists, that a Christian cross is comforting to the non-religious population. The opposite is true.” said American Atheists President David Silverman.

“Atheists died on 9/11, members of our organization suffered in lower Manhattan on that day, and our members helped with the rescue and recovery efforts–yet we are denied equal representation in the National Museum. There are no better examples of Christian privilege and prejudice in this country than this decision and the refusal of the museum commission to work with us to honor atheists who died and suffered on 9/11,” said Silverman.

American Atheists filed the lawsuit in New York Supreme Court on July 27, 2011. The organization has not yet decided whether to appeal the ruling.

  • Dave the Sensible

    In Town of Greece v. Galloway, 12-696, decided 5/5/2014, The Supremes made second class citizens of all non-Christians in America. An atheist and a Jewish woman had sued over the town’s practice of opening public meetings with Christian prayer. SCOTUS ruled the town may continue having Christian prayer.

    • Patrick

      Have the Atheist read the scripture in the bible PSALM 14;1 and 53:1 THE FOOL HATH SAID IN HIS HEART THERE IS NO GOD. that is the condition of a atheist…All of them say the bible is a myth but yet they fight against in the courts…its its a myth it shouldn’t bother u or do atheist have a mental problem or something ??? I think they do…fairy tales offend them….they don’t me….SO WHO IS THE SMART ONE???

      • str8sin

        so, if we think the bible is myths, why would we look to it for guidance? if the koran said something like “the christians are dumb-asses”, would you accept it?

        • vacmancan

          Sweetheart, you look to the BUY-BULL for guidance??? Are you serious????? Do you stone people for working on Sunday?????? It’s in the BUY-BULL!!!!!!!

      • Jess Cost

        If it hurt to be stupid, you would be writhing in pain….too bad it doesn’t.

        • patrick

          Im stupid? you atheist call the bible a fairy tale and at the same time you fight against it in the courts…only people with mental problems do something like.

          • Jess Cost

            We fight because your kind are convinced this “fairy tale” is real and discriminates against others for not believing in the same fairy tale or no fairy tale at all. You force your religion down everyone’s throat and we’re supposed to take it, because you’re good Christians. The fact that you automatically assume that I’m an atheist only proves how stupid you really are. What if I was Hindu, Jewish, Muslim….what if I worship the old Norse Gods or Zeus and Hera, the spirits of my ancestors? Why does it come down to some sheep herders’ tales over in the Middle East?

          • patrick

            If I said Mary Poppins was a fairy tale and at the same time I fought against it in the courts cause other people believed in it…I would look like some kind of stupid nut…so how do the atheist look fighting against christianity and the bible saying its a myth but it offends them at the same time…..ATHEIST ARE A BUNCH OF CRAZY NUTS

          • Jess Cost

            Your argument is pathetic, but a little funny. If I were to take it literally, you are calling your own religion a fairy tale. Freud was correct, after all….hmmm.

            But then I go on to read in your infantile rebuttal that “we atheists think the bible is a myth.” Nope. We are quite aware that the bible exists. We have it metaphorically shoved down our throats every single day. That very book that half of you Xians don’t even read but profess to know word for word, yeah….we’re quite aware of that book, Patrick. Your ilk do not mind at all to try your best to indoctrinate us, demand respect for your messed up beliefs BUT GIVE NO RESPECT TO ANYBODY ELSE! You claim it’s your personal beliefs but you make dang sure everybody knows about them. And you use the same old circular rhetoric to try to win the argument. Soooooo…..

            I could resort to remarking that all CHRISTIANS ARE A BUNCH OF UNEDUCATED, KNUCKLE-DRAGGING, SLACK-JAWED IDIOTS, but I have quite a few intelligent friends that profess to be Christian. So I’ll just reserve that insult for YOUUUU. I really hope that if you fail to understand any of the big words I’ve used in my rant above, you use the internet for a force of good and look them up.

          • Seeing our own faults in other

            I think that you would be a better advocate for atheism is you used more of the “reason” you claim to follow and less of the emotion and name-calling that you accuse others of.

            Freud indeed …

          • Jess Cost

            Emotion is highly underrated. “Reason” doesn’t work with these assholes. Because of white Republican Jesus and stuff.

          • Research, then comment

            Yes, I would prefer my doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. be far more emotional instead of relying on data, facts, and “reason”. But shouting at people and calling them “assholes” seems to be the way atheists deal with people who they don’t like or agree with.

            “White republican Jesus”? Better not tell all the black and Hispanic Christians that …..

          • Jess Cost

            You’re just a zealot that’s pissed off that people don’t want a stupid cross plastered EVERY-FREAKING-WHERE.

          • Philip Rivers

            Because your thinking is simplistic, I’ll go slowly. We fight in the courts to keep religion out of government as the First Amendment states. If you can’t understand that I don’t want to go into a government building or visit a tax-funded project and see any religious symbols, I don’t know what I can say to have you understand. It’s not Christian stuff I oppose. It’s religious stuff. Why do we end up suing Christians? Because you Christians don’t understand that we fight for the Constitution, not against Christianity! And, I’ll add that Christians think they have the right to use government to promote Christianity.

          • k

            let me remind you that you are generalizing atheists as crazy nuts when you don’t like being generalized, and to make something clear, we’re trying to remove religion from the laws, not exterminate christians and burn bibles. Keep your religion, and keep it away from me.

          • Pat Kittle

            God told me it’s YOU who is CRAZY NUTS.

            You can argue with me but I sure hope you won’t argue with Him.

          • patrick

            atheist are mentally ill

          • immerda

            you are not stupid, indoctrinated is a better word. The same goes for all the Moslems who cannot help that by chance they were borne in a Moslem family, etc etc

          • Eritis

            So if you’re a believer, you’re “indoctrinated” by being born into a family of believers? If I were born into a family of atheists and became an atheist as well, would that could as “indoctrinated” or does that word only apply to ideologies you disagree with?

          • k

            I believe in this context that “indoctrinated” means that you were raised to believe in something and had no choice of belief. Not misled.

          • immerda

            Eritris: Religious people usually grow up in a religious environment, go to church regularly and are told over and over again to believe in Christ, or Allah, or ….. and thus they become believers. That is indoctrination.
            That is why a child of a Muslim usually becomes a Muslem, a child of a Christian a Christian; a child of a Baptist a Baptist.
            My family never prayed or take me to church; there was no talk against religion or for it. Had my parents told me over and over that there was no God, that would have been indoctrination.

        • Grow up

          Too bad it doesn’t hurt to be a narrow-minded intolerant ass who thinks she’s smarter than everyone else.

          Forcing your secular ideologies on people is no different than forcing non-secular ideologies on people.

          • Jess Cost

            Ha! You’re cute! I presume your intelligence far out reaches mine, but I have quite a few pedigrees when it comes to honors and accolades. YOU’RE ON AN AMERICAN ATHEIST ARTICLE!!! Hellooooo!!! Of course I’m going to be forcing my secular ideologies on people. You must be a downright genius….You say “force,” I say “DEFEND.”

            I am one of those people who is so damn sick and tired of seeing children molested by church officials and I’m NOT just talking about the Catholic priests when I say that. I’m sickened by the thought of acid thrown in little girls’ faces for just wanting to go to school..because women-folk are supposed to be baby making machines and nothing else. I’m sooooo tired of seeing images of seven year old’s carrying around signs that says “GOD HATES FAGS.”

          • Intolerance cuts both ways

            I see — you’re judging the vast majority of believers on the basis of the loud-mouthed, extremists and/or those who engage in criminal behavior (and who should be severely punished for it).

            It might surprise you to know that the behavior you describe is a miniscule (albeit very outspoken) percentage of believers, and that most believers (myself included) strongly condemn the behaviors you describe. I would invite you to visit half a dozen mainstream churches and listen to what they have to say — I doubt you’ll hear anything negative spoken about anyone, much less instructions about burning people with acid of “hating fags”. (Incidentally, you do know that several mainstrema protestant denominations have openly gay clergy and even openly gay bishops, right?)

            Please don’t judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a handful of extremists.

          • Jess Cost

            The bible, the koran, and the torah all three are some of the most violent pieces of literature out there. How can I not judge them for their content?? It’s easy to claim a “benign existence” in this day and age, but all three had anything but benign beginnings. And yet, people STILL die every day over religion. This is much more than a “handful.”

          • Research, then comment

            “The bible, the koran, and the torah all three are some of the most violent pieces of literature out there”

            You obviously haven’t read any of these books … or likely any other books for that matter. “Most violent pieces of literature out there”? Sorry, but you have absolutely no intellectual credibility after saying something as absurd as that.

            Frankly, I would hope that an allegedly reason-driven atheist would do a little more research instead of repeating distorted propaganda.

          • Jess Cost

            Zealot…..I’ve read the bible, I’ve read the translations of the other two……are you telling me Leviticus isn’t violent?!?! Go fuck yourself.

      • immerda

        If the Bible was our law I would have been executed many times over: Adultery? Kill them! Rebellious juveniles? Kill them! Work on the Sabbath? Kill them!
        Slavery is OK as long as you don’t kill your slave. No thanks, your Bible is not what I can live up to.
        And who can believe that some of ‘our’ ancestors lived for over 800 or 900 years. Read your ‘Bible’ and try to use some common sense.

      • Philip Rivers

        What? Your holy book says that Christians are good and nonbelievers are bad? How strange! I thought it would say the opposite.
        Because your thinking is simplistic, I’ll go slowly. We fight in the courts to keep religion out of government as the First Amendment states. If you can’t understand that I don’t want to go into a government building or visit a tax-funded project and see any religious symbols, I don’t know what I can say to have you understand. It’s not Christian stuff I oppose. It’s religious stuff. Why do we end up suing Christians? Because you Christians don’t understand that we fight for the Constitution, not against Christianity! And, I’ll add that Christians think they have the right to use government to promote Christianity.

      • k

        it’s not about being offended or bothered by the myth. it’s about taking a religion out of government because it brings harm to those who dont have the same beliefs. 1). atheists dont read the bible. 2). We (atheists) are the logical ones, not the ones who believe in a 2000 year old book that was written around the time when people thought the sun orbited Earth

  • Docfinder1

    You are a bunch of self absorbed people. Not everything is about you, not everything is a fight that needs to be picked. Do you seriously believe that every cross is a symbol of just Christianity? Really? The cross has become just as much of a secular symbol of hope as it has ever been a Christian symbol. You have a bunch of people who hate religion wanting to enforce their views on everyone else and you LOST. I support your right to believe and feel how you see fit, but I am tired of people attacking others who feel differently just because they have an axe to grind. Start your own “religion” of Atheism, and use it to gain followers, or “believers” in your non-belief. You are welcome to do it here in America. Go out and have fun, develop outings, get-togethers, etc. Be a force for good in your unbelief. Raise money, feed the homeless, warm the cold, etc. Just stop trying to attack others and waste everyone else’s time.

    • Brendan A. MacWade

      Talk about projection. What makes you assume atheists are not charitable? Ever hear of Warren Buffet? Oh, and maybe one day, you will realize that atheists are the majority of Americans and Europeans.

      • Homework please

        Majority? For people who like to talk about “facts”, you sure don’t seem to bother much with inconvenient things like polls and statistics.

      • Jess Cost

        Perhaps in Europe, but I’m afraid it’s not the truth for America. 40% of Americans do not even believe in evolution. Embarrassing to say the very least 🙁

    • Chris

      First they came… is a good example of why we are fighting against this cross at Ground Zero. I’m sure that all the Jews that were killed in the WTC would appreciate a Christian symbol at their place of death. If we go, “Oh we will just let this one slide” then where does the next line fall? It’s just nonsense to think that you can have this religious preference on a national memorial.

  • whocouldguess

    its funny what people believe these days…. Not every single thing shaped like a cross means “Christians rule, Athiests suck”, The cross there is showing that there is hope. The reason this is so stupid is because, If you believe that there is no god, you are saying when you die you cease to exist. This is also saying you wont remember that you ever did exist. If in the end your going to simply forget everything and you wont exist anymore then why does it matter if there was religion in the world? That cross isnt hurting anyone. Its not showing priviledge to Christians. You are basically fighting for one ammendment and going against another. You are saying “You have right of free speech… Oh, as long as it dosent refer in anyway to Christianity”

    • jim

      christian’s are the most hypocritical religious militant fanatics around

      • Pat Kittle

        You can say that about Christians, no problem, you won’t be censored.

        Just don’t say it about Jews.

    • ReallyCommonSense

      They weren’t arguing over the use of crosses, they were making the case that atheists weren’t allowed representation. Oh, and it is you’re, not your. When you make a mistake like that, it shows just how little you know.

    • Jess Cost

      Because we might not believe in an afterlife, we’re tired of being bombarded by all of your symbols, rhetoric, and BULLSHIT while we’re living our meager existence IN THIS LIFE. How many HUGE Star of Davids do you see built on the side of interstates? How many Buddha billboard signs do you drive past every day? Probably not many…because it’s not part of their creed to INDOCTRINATE. Which that’s all it is.

      • Veni Vidi Vici

        Agreed, it amazes me how a 2000+ year old Vampire Cult aka Christianity can still cause so much drama.
        I believe in life before death.

        • Jess Cost

          Vampire Cult always makes me giggle just a little bit….as in a “Twilight” sparkly Jesus mental image kind of way.

        • k

          2000+ years ago? sounds like when they thought the world was flat.

      • Clock is ticking

        Forgive me for offending you by publically expressing beliefs that you don’t agree with.

        If there’s no afterlife, why are you spending your brief existance in bitter, pointless attacks on people who choose to believe in “bullshit”? Go enjoy your short (albeit empty) life as best you can.

        • Jess Cost

          And there’s the christian assumption again…..”without religion surely your life must be bitter and empty.” You keep telling yourselves that….I’m sure it makes you feel better….more superior.

          I have complete and utter wonderment for this little ball of rock we live on. When I’m not debating religion, I moonlight as a paleontologist. I study those “fake bones and stuff” that your trickster god put in the ground to test faith. And it is so much more enjoyable than studying mere 2,000 year old misogynistic primitive texts made up by sheep herders in the Middle East.

          • Research, then comment

            “Moonlight as a paleontologist”. In other words, you don’t really have an actual degree in a scientific or technical field, but you read things on the internet to make you “feel better …. more superior”. (

          • Research, then comment

            “Moonlight as a paleontologist”. In other words, you don’t really have an actual degree in a scientific or technical field, but you read things on the internet to make you “feel better …. more superior”.

            Regarding “fake bones”, you do know that white mainline Protestants believe in evolution at a higher rate than the general population, right?

            http://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-evolution/

            And the Catholic church supports the concepts of the Big Band and evolution as well.
            But, again, it’s clear that despite “moonlighting” as a scientist, you have no real scientific background and no desire to do real, unbiased research to support your statements.

            (Oh, by the way, I am a REAL scientist with actual graduate degrees in science from actual universities. If you doubt this, I would be VERY happy to discuss the derivation of various mathematical theorems all day long).

          • Enrico

            Wow! You actually think she meant “moonlight”?!? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL How can you be that soft? (And I don’t mean squishy, I mean stupid, but I wanted to be less harsh. Then I realized you’re a bit too simpel (not a typo btw) to get it and would think I really meant ‘soft’.)

          • Jess Cost

            I’m in the process of getting my degree……I didn’t have mommy and daddy pay for my education like you probably did. I’ve studied paleontology on my own for over seven years. I am a member of a paleontology society and a contributor to my state museum. Sometimes relevant experience goes A LOT FURTHER than some piece of paper anyway….just ask a hiring manager or an out of work, fresh-out-of-college graduate.

            But please tell me where these white-mainline-protestants are that agree with evolution. I’ve yet to meet any. And you want to put a pew survey in my face?!?! THAT is laughable. And we’re talking PALEONTOLOGY….not mathematics here, genius.

          • Pat Kittle

            Anyone could claim to be “God” and there would be no way to disprove it.

            After all, “God” doesn’t have to prove anything.

          • Jess Cost

            Actions always speak louder than words, Pat. I would prefer someone SHOW me that they were godlike than tell me, any day.

          • k

            “REAL scientist?” psychology lesson: science and religion don’t go well together. Unlike the bible, it’s a proven fact.

    • Pat Kittle

      For those who ponder “Where do we go when we die?”

      Ask yourself “Where were we before we lived?”

      Same basic “place.”

  • Elizabeth Egan

    Spend your time and money helping people instead of causing more division and unrest in this country. Get a life!

    • jim

      elizabeth maybe take your own advice. why the need to cram your jesus down our throats ?

      • Elizabeth Egan

        @Jim, I said nothing about Jesus. Don’t put words in my mouth. You can do good for others w/out being religious. Well maybe you can’t, but I can.

        • jim

          elizabeth then why the need for that pile of metal?

          • jim

            christians need to shove your religion in our faces you have been this way for 2000 years

  • gerjuanamo

    Thank you for fighting on this topic. As an atheist, I do see the cross as an insult to others who share my views when used in instances like this. I very deliberately reject the cross as a symbol of hope, and would think that is not an uncommon view. If the twisted metal had been an A and we laid claim to it, they would have fought with everything they had to replace it with a cross, so again, i appreciate the effort on American Atheists legal activists.

    • Itsnotallaboutyou

      So it’s insulting to you when people express beliefs you don’t share?

      • DesertPenguin

        No but it is insulting when a country which was founded on a separation of state and church puts any religious symbols on anything federal.

        • Pat Kittle

          So that Star of David on the dollar bill must really bug you, right?

          🙂

          (Courtesy of those same wonderful folks who gave us 9-11.)

          • DesertPenguin

            Of course it bothers me. Didn’t you read my post at all? I said “any religious symbol”

            And as I said in a reply to you in another post… the wager still stands…find something worthwhile to quote and I shall bow down before thee, but we both know that will never happen.

          • Pat Kittle

            I’ve seen PLENTY of impassioned objections to crosses on public property — such as the American Atheists article we’re commenting on right now.

            I somehow missed the American Atheists article that passionately objected to the Star of David on our currency, and your comments following that article.

            Perhaps you could link us to it?

    • Pat Kittle

      As an atheist I find it interesting that those who object to crosses never object to the stealthy Star of David on US currency.

      It’s right above the eagle on the back of the dollar bill (I never noticed it either, until I started investigating Jewish Privilege).

  • I love Jesus

    Im going to pray for all you atheist .
    You need it more then me. .
    Have a blessed day.
    See you at cross at ground zero !!!!

    • jim

      you wont be seeing me. and i can talk to myself as easily as you. So you arent going to ground zero for those who died you are going to see some metal crap that happens to resemble your mythical gods death

    • vacmancan

      Sweetheart, can you “pray-away” climate-change for us????? You “simpel-folk” are so cute. Thank you.

    • Veni Vidi Vici

      Cry and beg to your God , I can use the entertainment…

      • k

        dude, get the popcorn, the christians are coming!!!

    • k

      let me give give you a lesson on engineering. in buildings, beams intersect for sturdier support, therefor the cross is just a broken piece of a building frame, lucky coincidence.

    • Pat Kittle

      Christianity:

      “The belief that an invisible cosmic Jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.”

      (I never thought of it like that before — now it makes sense.)

      🙂

  • Atheist for peace

    A national tragedy shouldn’t be used for the promotion of a religion or the faith of few people. But religious people are very vicious and if they can put a piece of cross in front of your face they will do it even what you think. That’s why, it’s difficult to have a common ground when the superstition become more important than the truth.

  • Drew

    There are many other symbols that are non-religous at the 9-11 site. I can not believe tax payers $$s were wasted with this case. I don’t know what created this world, but for those who wish to use the cross as a sign of faith during tragic events have my deepest support. This case is more of extreme atheists rather than American ones.

    • Brendan A. MacWade

      This case was a battle between two private organizations. Your precious tax dollars were not touched.

  • Fish

    Why did 9/11 happen in the first place? Religious extremism. No one in their right mind would fly a plane into a building without the belief of what they are doing is right, and that is what religion has to offer. Erecting a cross, a religious symbol, at the site of such atrocity caused by religion is absurd.

    • nostereotypes

      Extremism can be secular as well, and many believers have died and continue to die at the hands of non-believers. Blame the extremists, not their twisted view of religion.

      • Michael Flynn

        I do hold them responsible and if I ever here a secular humanist saying anything out of line or hateful, biggitted, or untrue I will be the first to say something and defend the rights all my fellow humans will the religious moderates from all religious walks of life do the same so far they haven’t

        • Oppa

          Uhm, pretty much ALL religious moderates condemn violence and hate.

    • Pat Kittle

      “Why did 9/11 happen in the first place?”

      I repeat — Google — [ Israel did 9-11 ].

      • DesertPenguin

        Try getting some information from a REAL source – not wikispooks.

        • Pat Kittle

          “Real source” meaning “Israeli-approved source” — yes yes of course!

          🙂

          • DesertPenguin

            I’ll accept anything with validity which leaves out you comment’s source.

          • Pat Kittle

            “anything with validity” meaning “Israeli-approved source” — yes yes of course!

            🙂

            BTW, I simply said Google “Israel did 9-11” — for which I get 586,000 results including multitudes of sources & a wide range of conclusions. What are you afraid of? (As if we didn’t know!)

          • DesertPenguin

            I also can Google. Try “CIA killed Kennedy” and you get 353,000 results. Try “moon landing was a hoax” and you get 481,000 results. Try “America responsible for 9-11” and you get a whopping 17,400,000. All conspiracy theories have hundreds of thousand – if not millions – of followers. It doesn’t make them true. Any idiot can put up a web page saying anything they want. BTW…I also ran the same Google search you did and came up with 18,200,000 and the top page is a list of conspiracy sites. Try to find a site with some Journalistic integrity to support your Israel claim without just mentioning it as a conspiracy and I will apologize and bow down before you.

          • Pat Kittle

            We aren’t talking about Moon landings here.

            We’re talking about the massive evidence that Israel did 9-11 — evidence you clearly fear.

            Calling that evidence a “conspiracy theory” in no way discredits it — after all, your official (Israel-approved) version of 9-11 is also a “conspiracy theory,” by definition.

            By Googling “Israel did 9-11” (include the quotes) we get “multitudes of sources & a wide range of conclusions” — just like I said.

            You obviously fear free inquiry. The only sources you approve of are Israel-approved sources. You absolutely do not want us to Google:
            — [ “Lucky Larry Silverstein” ]
            — [ “Dancing Israelis” ]
            — [ WTC-7 “controlled demolition” ]
            — [ http://www.ae911truth.org/ — (Architects & Engineers for 9-11 Truth) ]

          • DesertPenguin

            If you can’t grasp the similarity with the moon landing then I may be giving you too much credit intellectually. I have also somehow managed to live for years after this and have not been hit with the “massive evidence” you claim there is. I call it a conspiracy theory based on the facts that very few people believe it and the ones who do are disregarding the facts as we know them (I’m not so foolish as to say that facts made available later may change my opinion.) I’m sorry that I don’t have the time at the moment to go through all your listings, but worry not, I will get to them tomorrow. The last one caught my eye though so I had to do a quick check on it because I thought if the AIA was actually behind this evidence you may have convinced me. That was before I found out that the AIA wants to disown him and the AIA believes the National Institute for Science and Technologies’s report.

            http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19339

            I will get back to you tomorrow to discredit this and the others more completely, but I must go to work now.

          • Pat Kittle

            You claim to be open minded about the massive evidence that Israel did 9-11 — but you conclude by saying you’ll “discredit” whatever you find.

            You’re obviously trying to discourage us from seeing anything that Israel doesn’t want us to see.

            Why??

            Checking out the sources I cited will answer that question — regardless of whether we have your blessings or not.

          • DesertPenguin

            I have changed my mind and will do nothing to look into your posts since we both know the poster boy for your cause is nothing but a wanna be. As for you, it’s simple from reading your posts across the web you are both an anti-semite and a conspiracy nut job. You will take any view that is contrary to what the majority of intelligent people believe and try to dig up dirt to disprove it. I will leave you alone with your disillusions aobut JFK, your fear of big pharma, dread of the effects of fluoride in the water, belief that Elvis is still alive, that the death of Princess Diana was British Intelligence acting on behalf of the Royal Family, That Pearl Harbor was set up to bring us into the war the way President Roosevelt wanted, The global warming debate, the Holocaust being a hoax, and the area 51 mysteries. These other hoaxws, like the one this started with, are just not worth the time and effort to try to disprove to someone of your stature. I wish you all the best and have no hard feeling toward you as without people like you and those of your ilk, life would be pretty boring, Have a good day.

          • Pat Kittle

            You Israel Internet troll are amusingly predictable.

            You are shameless liars — you know perfectly well I never claimed such nonsense as “Elvis is still alive.”

            You try desperately to discredit the massive evidence that Israel did 9-11 — but you can’t refute it honestly. So you resort to shameless lies.

            Anyone can simply check out these sources and draw their own conclusions — Google:
            — [ “Lucky Larry Silverstein” ]
            — [ “Dancing Israelis” ]
            — [ WTC-7 “controlled demolition” ]
            — [ http://www.ae911truth.org/ — (Architects & Engineers for 9-11 Truth) ]

          • DesertPenguin

            Do you even know the definition of an internet troll – no looking it up please. You don’t know how to read do you? Most anti-semi people probably don’t either. I took on the only one that could possibly be even remotely credible (www.ae911truth.org) and pointed out to you that the guy is so basically out there that even his own professional organization has disowned him! As for Elvis (and the other list of conspiracy theories I listed ) I just took a guess since you are a conspiracy nut that you probably believe them all. Wasting time trying to debate you would be worthless since you can barely ever convince a conspiracy nut that he needs to come back to the real world. And just for the record I am neither an Israeli troll or (as you seem to be) an Israeli hater. Try to have a nice life. I’m sure you can find someone to share your views or to take time to bother to argue with you, but you aren’t going to take much of my already sparse free time enabling you. Here’s a website of other junk you may want to start trolling about http://www.investigationdiscovery.com/crime-fighting/10-conspiracy-theories.htm

          • Pat Kittle

            You sure go to great lengths to discourage us from questioning the Israel-approved version of historical events.

            🙂

          • RakaR74

            It’s too bad it’s over as I have enjoyed watching this.

            DesertPenguin: You’re right. I can claim anything and have a large number of google queries in months from flimsy sources.

            Pa Kittle: I notice how short your replies get when you loose. Maybe there is hope for you yet.

          • RakaR74

            Pat: I take back my earlier comment. After browsing some of your comment history I’ve come to the conclusion that you belong in a psych ward.

          • Pat Kittle

            You Israel trolls sure go to great lengths to discourage us from questioning the Israel-approved version of historical events.

            🙂

          • DesertPenguin

            First, learn the meaning of troll before you use it.
            Secondly, learn a new sentence. You’ve used that last one every time someone disagrees with you.
            Thirdly, Have a good night, but watch out for those black helicopters. They may be coming after you since you revealed the secret Jewish plan to run the US and from there the rest of the word

          • Pat Kittle

            Hasbara troll,

            It’s YOU who keeps conflating criticism of your precious Israel with believing in silly stuff.

            If you really believe Israel was NOT deeply involved in 9-11 you would be content to let people simply check out the evidence.

            Curiously, you are not content to do that.

          • DesertPenguin

            First off http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

            defines you here not me. I never once stopped anyone from going to one of your sites. I simply stated that they are tainted just as you have said about all media. The reason I was the only one too even respond to you (sorry, there was one other) is I occasionally like to see how far they’ve gone. With you it is apparently on three websites and your three usable brain cells. The majority of people saw you for the antisemitic troll (yes, I used it correctly) that you are. Don’t worry, we’ll ask the Jewish people to be lenient on you once they have finished taking over the world as you seem to fear is going to happen. We’ll explain your low brain power and brainwashing – which probably needed no more than a toothbrush.

            I will now be blocking your inane ass so don’t bother to respond. I’ve already wasted too much of my time on you.

          • Pat Kittle

            I reply to you Israel trolls solely for the benefit of anyone who might be curious to actually see how you operate.

            “Straw-man” arguments & juvenile insults are exactly what we expect from you — and that’s exactly what we get.

            I never said you “stopped anyone” from investigating Israel’s war crimes — I said you were “not content” to let people do that — which is obvious.

            As for whether you read this (I suspect you are), I don’t care — like I said, I only correspond with Israel’s trolls to publicly expose your devious behavior.

            We can simply Google: — [ Israel Internet troll ]:
            — [ https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+internet+troll&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp ]

            🙂

      • k

        actually Israel was unrelated, it was muslim extremism and “Al Queda.” common mistake

        • Pat Kittle

          Then you won’t mind if we find out for ourselves.

          Google — [ Israel did 9-11 ].

    • AtheistsRGay

      Wrong. 9/11 was not resultant of religious extremism.

      • Brian from Jersey City

        Thanks for clearing this up for me. Then it was a case of religious moderation?

  • Seriously?

    Yeah because the whole 9/11 memorial, a tribute to thousands of people who were viciously murdered, is all about you atheists and how you guys feel about the whole thing. Forgive me, I forgot. Get a life, let alone a soul.

    • Jess Cost

      Hey, there were plenty of people from our camp that were killed as well. I’m sure they wouldn’t want to be memorialized by a big rusty cross. Hell, I bet that Jesus dude doesn’t even want to see one when he gets back, if what all you bible thumpers say is true.

      • LiveandLetLive

        Fascinating how you divide the world in “your camp” and “our camp”. I’m perfectly comfortable treating atheists with respect like my fellow Americans and human being — are you willing to show the same courtesy to people whose beliefs you disagree with?

        • Jess Cost

          I might if all things religious weren’t crammed down my throat almost daily. And you’ve got your nerve in pointing fingers about my usage of the word “camp.” Oh wait…you all prefer the word “flock,’ don’t you?!

          • Sensitive

            I see — so you want a world where you don’t have to listen to things you don’t like?

            I prefer a world where I’m presented with a variety of different viewpoints and given the freedom to accept or reject them as I see fit. If a cross-shaped piece of metal is too much for you to take, should we demolish all the churches as well? How about deporting / jailing Christians and burning their books so their “bullshit” isn’t “forced down your throat” (you seem to really like that metaphor) any more?

          • Jess Cost

            Nope, don’t destroy the churches…some of them are indeed pretty places…. though I do believe that our country should tax church property and businesses.

            And all I am doing here is just what you prefer to do yourself….I’m rejecting a “viewpoint.” The question that seems to be unanswerable is “where do your rights end and mine begin?”

          • Enrico

            No surprise that you went to ridiculous extremes. Well done.

            Your feeble attempt to put words in her mouth has failed. At no point did she say anything close to, “I don’t want to have to listen to things I don’t like.” What we’d like is really very simple. We like you to stop putting crosses and stars and other symbols where they don’t belong. Where is that? I’ll tell you. Municipal buildings of any kind. Taxpayer funded anythings really. Our Constitution is supposed to protect us from your religion. It says you must separate church and state. So don’t try to indoctrinate kids in public schools, get your cross off the public common, etc. Much like in a condo association, we must share the common space. You don’t own it. We don’t own it. Yet you keep putting your stuff there. Why? More interestingly, why can’t you see how utterly wrong that behavior is?

    • vacmancan

      Sweetheart you “simpel-folk” are so cute. So you think you have a soul?? That’s adorable, thank you.

      • Opla

        Childish sarcasm is a poor way to win people to your cause

        • Jess Cost

          Being a patronizing ass isn’t a good way to further your cause either….

    • Enrico

      You have it wrong. The whole 9/11 memorial, a tribute to thousands of people who were viciously murdered is all about christians. Nobody else matters, right? Especially atheists. SO of course the atheists and jews and everybody else should let us put up a cross.

      And you think WE are self-centered…WOW!

  • Brendan A. MacWade

    Atheists are the majority. One day, if this nation doesn’t collapse first, our government and legal system will recognize that.

    • Kopol

      Majority? Since EVERY poll EVER taken says that atheists are only a small percentage of American society, I can only hope that other atheists are better informed than you.

      • Enrico

        A lot of atheists will not admit to it (even on a poll) because of the discrimination we’d face from closed-minded religious people. Also, when Brenden said, “Atheists are the majority,” he didn’t limit himself to the U.S. And in the developed world, atheist easily outnumber the religious.

        • Pat Kittle

          Actually, Christians, Jews, & Muslims are 99.98% atheists themselves.

          Out of the ~5,000 religions in the world, they don’t believe in ~4,999 of them.

          🙂

      • k

        some atheists haven’t come out to being atheists yet because they fear the consequences of doing so because of religious people who discriminate

  • vacmancan

    Guys from now on let’s spell the bible the way it was meant to be spelled….. BUY-BULL Any questions????

    • Hey

      Yes – are you a troll or just an idiot?

      • vacmancan

        Sweetheart, I’m a B!TCH-SLAPPER who loves making fun of you “simpel-folk” who don’t understand science. Are you busy?????

        • Pity for you

          I feel sorry for you – it’s clear you’re simply trolling to get attention, most likely because you’re a nobody in the real-world. But unlike real troublemakers (who run the risk of serious consequences for their attention-getting behavior), you lack the courage to be a “real” troublemaker and simply post anonymously in the hopes that someone will pay attention to you.

          It makes me sad to know that people like you exist: you have my prayers and my pity.

          (And I won’t be reading your reply, so don’t bother)

          • vacmancan

            Sweetheart don’t pray for me, but if you could “pray-away” global warming I’d appreciate it. Thank you.

        • Jess Cost

          Bwahahahahahaha! In my opinion the best comment on this whole thread…….thank you.

          • Research, then comment

            White mainline Protestants believe that global warming is a serious issue at a rate HIGHER than the general population:

            http://www.pewforum.org/2009/04/16/religious-groups-views-on-global-warming/

            The US Council of Catholic Bishops wrote a letter to the EPA urging tighter carbon restrictions to combat global warming and urged national leader to work to combat climate change.

            http://catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/bishops/

            But please ….. don’t let facts, data, or research interfere with your immature name-calling and stereotyping.

          • Enrico

            Do you think your comment is relevant to…anything? If so, please explain. I’d be interested to read it.

        • k

          nice one

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  • John

    You atheists all sound like a bunch of whiney little babies. Stop being so annoying and focus on something important. Open your eyes and stop being so close minded.

  • Pat Kittle

    In my experience, atheists are just as willing to censor comments they don’t like as Christians are.

    For example, let’s see how long this lasts:

    Google: — [ Israel did 9-11 ].

    (BTW, I’m an atheist.)

    • Enrico

      Huh? Maybe you need to reread your opening line. Cause you went somewhere else completely with the rest. Or is there a connection I’m missing? Exactly how does a famous person saying, “Jews run Hollywood”, thus causing a scandal reflect on atheists? Are the atheists supposed to be mad about the comment?

      • Pat Kittle

        When I became an atheist I was by definition no longer a Christian.

        When religious Jews becomes atheists they are still Jews, who self-identify as Jews, and act in the interest of Jews. Not always, but usually. And they often have a strong streak of Jewish supremacism which goes largely unnoticed.

        We ought to be discussing Jewish supremacism just like we discuss the fascistic nature of any other group of religious/ethnic extremists.

        It’s not just Christians & Muslims making war in the Mideast. Like I said, Google — [ Israel did 9-11 ].

        Seriously. If you don’t already know that, take your first look at a whole lot of evidence hiding in plain sight.

        Most of what is known as “white privilege” is more accurately “Jewish privilege.” I would not be surprised if the people running this website are Jewish. If they are, it’s to their credit that they allow a comment like this to remain.

      • Pat Kittle

        My comment (response) disappeared without a trace, not even a “Comment removed” notice. Maybe there was a techno-glitch.

        I’ll try again:

        When I became an atheist I was by definition no longer a Christian.

        When religious Jews becomes atheists they are still Jews, who self-identify as Jews, and act in the interest of Jews. Not always, but usually. And they often have a strong streak of Jewish supremacism which goes largely unnoticed.

        We ought to be discussing Jewish supremacism just like we discuss the fascistic nature of any other group of religious/ethnic extremists.

        It’s not just Christians & Muslims making war in the Mideast. Like I said, Google — [ Israel did 9-11 ].

        Seriously. If you don’t already know that, take your first look at a whole lot of evidence hiding in plain sight. Pay particular attention to the “dancing Israelis” & “Lucky Larry Silverstein” & “WTC-7” being a “controlled demolition.”

        Most of what is known as “white privilege” is more accurately “Jewish privilege.” I would not be surprised if the people running this website are Jewish. If they are, it’s to their credit that they allow a comment like this to remain.

        (Is this going to be censored? If so, we’ll know why.)

      • Pat Kittle

        My response to you, though civil, was banned without a trace.

        We can criticize Christians & Muslims, but we must not criticize God’s Chosen People.

      • Pat Kittle

        My civil responses to you go down the memory hole without a trace.

        Will even this comment disappear too?

    • k

      That would be because the racial slur for Jewish people and the regular term for them are the same word and how to tell the difference is the tone of voice, that’s why it can be taken the wrong way

      • Pat Kittle

        I’m stating facts.

        As for being offended by a “tone of voice” — less than an hour ago you told me to “fuck off.”

        That too can be offensive, though I’m sure you didn’t mean it to be.

        But thanks anyway for raising my level of hypersensitivity. In the future I will try to be as easily offended as you are.

  • Enrico

    It’s kind of amazing how many religious people have come on here to post. What’s not amazing is that I haven’t read one of their posts that wasn’t closed-minded. But, of course, such is the way of the oppressor.

    I did get a kick out of the one post that tried to say a cross is a secular symbol. That it had basically morphed into a universal sign of hope. How convenient that his symbol got chosen to represent hope…LOL Was there a meeting on that? Was it in a church perhaps? LOL

    And to those religious people who want atheists to stop wasting our short time on Earth with this stuff I say, stop wasting our short time on Earth with your magic guy in the sky. Just because your parent(s) told you there’s a guy in the sky doesn’t make it so. Remember, you were also told about Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth-Fairy. You moved on from those. Maybe it’s time you moved on from the rest of it.

    As an atheist, I like to believe that someday this country will shed the yoke of religion. Obviously there will always be religious people here, but someday they will be a tiny minority and won’t be able to inflict their beliefs on the rest of us. I’ll be long dead by then. I’ve got maybe 50 years left. In the meantime I fully support the efforts of American Atheists to keep church and state separate. I can’t expect corporations to stop bombarding me with xmas crap by mid-October (or easter crap by mid-February), but our Constitution is clear about church and state. Get the religious crap out of municipal buildings, out of schools, off public land, etc.

  • Kayla from California

    Understand all the arguments of discrimination and all the doors for corruption. But I just keep going around in circle with this. It’s a deal of “work exchanged for capital”… If you no longer agree with the exchange, move along… But the problem is, Hobby Lobby is found in religiously dominate areas… Try to find a Hobby Lobby in Southern California, however it’s a guarantee to be found in The South. Finding employees for Good ol Hobby Lobby will never be a problem. The first time I found out how religious this corperation was was in 2007, stationed, at a Mississippi military base. I went to a hobby lobby on a Sunday morning, and when I tried opening a door and to my surprise the door was locked. A maintenance person happened to be on the inside by the door, angerly shouted the glass, “what are doing?. We’re closed! It’s Sunday!” With a creepy cult, bah humbug, condescending authoritative patriarchal manner. I don’t know quite how else to explain the experience. I was really embarrassed and rushed to my car and went on my way. I’ll never forget that though, it was just one of those little moment memories that stick like yesterday. I was Christian back then but did my studies from home because it was hard to find a free spirited hippie vibe church in Mississippi. I actually forgot it was Sunday. I bought my cross stitch thread online from then on…. I’m back in California now, and I enjoy Joanne’s craft store. And I lived happily ever after. The End 🙂

    • Kayla from California

      Aggggg I’m having posting issues… Disregard this post, it’s meant for the corporate interference act of 2014. Thanks

  • AtheistsRGay

    What a bunch of losers.

    • k

      says the one named “atheistsRgay.” you claim atheists exist as hate, but where is the star of David or other religious symbols in courtrooms? in ground zero there seems to be a metal cross. Here’s an engineering lesson, the cross was just two intersecting beams broken off of the frame of the building, lucky coincidence, the building was made of “crosses.” Fucking ignorant ass.

  • AtheistsRGay

    Go ahead, appeal it, waste some more money 🙂

  • AtheistsRGay

    Why is it that we see no one taking atheists to court? No one persecutes atheists however atheism exists as hatred. It lives and breathes hatred and anger. Atheism is the disbelief of a God. What we have here is hatred of Christianity and it is by that fact we know who American Atheist, Inc. actually represents.

    What does “equal representation,” mean – that you can’t erect an atheist symbol and what would that be a statute or enshrinement of, Richard Dawkins,?

    From what I understand, some of the the rescuers derived strength from the cross and enough so that it became publicized.

    Just exactly what amongst the debris stood out as an atheist symbol? NOTHING and therein resides the denial of your specious lawsuit.

    Thus your demanding equal representation is both specious and frivolous, being something that you seem to excel at.

    Apparently you claimed atheists were becoming physically ill at the sight of the Cross? Have you no scruples whatsoever?

    • ChristiansRHomophobes

      Atheism breeds hatred and anger? You chose the username “AtheistsRGay.” I have friends that are gay, so I take offense to your choice of words. The fact that Christianity is represented by narrow-minded, homophobic people such as yourself is exactly the reason why I chose the path of non-religion. I am sorry that you are afraid of what happens when you die, and so in a childish effort to feel safe, you believe in Christian myths such as Santa Clause, The Easter Bunny, and God. You sir, are a hypocrite. Atheism doesn’t breed anger and hate, religion does.

  • AtheistsRGay

    If American Atheists actually had a pair should it not file a Civil Action as against the United States Supreme Court for having images of Moses and the Ten Commandments? I think that is what I like about the Lesbian atheist Justices there – they don’t seem to suffer from the ill effects you claimed atheists were suffering just looking at the cross. By your specious claims it is a wonder that the Atheist Justices are still alive having to endure these illnesses on daily basis!

    American Atheist , Inc. reminds one of another “tolerant” Atheist Enterprise, Stalin’s Soviet Union.

  • Pat Kittle

    9-11 “an example of Christian Privilege”??

    No big outrage for you to say that.

    But if we say 9-11 is “an example of Jewish Privilege” — well that’s different!

    Jews absolutely must NOT be criticized, even though Jews were deeply involved in 9-11. Google “Israel did 9-11” — pay particular attention to:
    —– “Dancing Israelis”;
    —– “Lucky Larry Silverstein”;
    —– WTC-7 “controlled demolition”!

    • k

      Fuck off and take your Israel/Jew accusations with you, dumbass

      • Pat Kittle

        Getting a little touchy, aren’t we?

        🙂

    • DavinStorm

      Google “America did 9-11” and you get tons of results for that as well. The world is full of conspiracies. But nice try sport.

      : – )

  • Leti

    GOD IS THE ONLY WAY & THE TRUTH OF LIFE!!!! 🙂 he still loves you.

  • David K.

    As a devout Christian with traditional patriotic values, I feel in some way responsible for the mess that you’re in. My heart aches for your predicament. I must apologize on behalf of America for this grave wrong.
    I’m sorry. I’m sorry that the principles of architecture favor Christian symbolism. I’m sorry that, when a building is knocked down, its girders are liable to resemble crosses as opposed to crescents, stars of David, or “happy human” symbols. I’m sorry that nothing in the rubble was something to which you atheists, agnostics, secularists, humanists, and skeptics of all stripes could cling to in such tragic circumstances. I really, truly am.

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